Cab sim EQ vs real cab EQ

    If I connect my Kemper power rack to a Bogner 2x12 OS guitar cab, I get a real good tone without changing the monitor EQ
    I can leave all knobs at the neutral position.
    But if I line the Kemper out to a PA system ( main outputs ) and I choose (the same) Bogner 2x12 by simulation, I have way to much Highs and Presence and not enough Mids and I have to tweek the main output EQ a lot to get the same tone ( or the EQ on the mixer of course )
    Shouldnt this be the same as the real cab ?
    I understand that the Kemper sound fizzy if the Cab sim is accidently turned off , but even iff its on, there are still some cab-sim types that give to much Fizz and highs
    The fizz problem is gone if I choose another type cab ( like a marshall 4x12 greenback ) so its not a big problem but
    Am I doing something wrong ? ?(
    Greatings
    Dorrus

    I understand that they are not the same and that the sim is a simulation of the real one, but in my case are the most simulated cabs much brighter and have more presence than my bogner 2x12 OS cab.
    I was wondering iff I whas the only one with that issue.
    Could be the Bogner cab itself off course, perhaps this cab has less Highs than other cabs ?
    A lot of the rigs sound fizzy thin and sharp to me over the main outs .( tried both xlr and line outs )
    What I read a lot in this problem is the comment that cab sim is OFF and that it should be turned ON
    But it is allready turned on and still a 80% of all rigs are sounding thin and fizzy over the main outputs into a mixer.
    If I scroll true the sim cabs I can here a big difference so its on
    There is no main switch, to turn cab sin of using the main outs is there? ( I know there is a cabinet lighted switch next to the Amp and eq switch but is there another one ? )
    This is the powerrack version with the red speaker output and using this instead off the main output its sounding great and not fizzy at all. :huh:

    Edited 2 times, last by Dorrus (October 2, 2013 at 9:45 AM).

    I guess the difference is mostly due to the type and position of the mic employed when the profile was created. The powerrack through a real cab will have a different sound in the room if you are comparing it against a miked up version of a similar (or even the same) cabinet through studio monitors or PA. EDIT: guitarnet70 was faster ...

    Edited once, last by laardi (October 2, 2013 at 9:59 AM).

    Try the sound with the cab sim in a mix and listen if fits in the mix just as is. If so, then it's right. It has to be different form how your cab sounds, to fit in a mix, what you need to hear to play a guitar is not what the FOH guy needs and it's not what the audience is used to. They know how a recorded guitaramp sounds, they don't know how an amp sounds.

    Quote from DonPetersen

    please supply recordings of the issue you are experiencing.

    main outs, unaltered by EQ, the signal you describe as 'fizzy'

    Can you please tell me how to do that ?
    I intend to use my Kemper live and have no experience with recordings and how to put them online
    Greatings
    Dorrus

    ps
    The same ( what I intend to call Fizzy ) sound I get, with a headphone directly into the Kemper with allmost every sound straight from the Kemper Rig Exchange

    I made the same experience with the same cab, it is a little dark. I much prefer my Tonehunters cab with 2 Creambacks though. But that's off topic :D
    My solution: Monitor EQ -> Bass -0.3 Mids +0.4 Treble +1.0 Presence +0.9 - tweak rig to your liking - FOH sounds great with that setting too.
    Another good advice: look the cab for FOH, then all the sounds should translate quite nice to FOH.

    Plus: It shouldn't be a problem for a good sound engineer to EQ your DI signal so that it sounds good - it's his job, not yours :)

    MJT Strats / PRS Guitars / Many DIY Guitars -- Kemper Profiler Rack / Kemper Remote / InEar

    Thanx everyone for the answers and help.
    I really appreciate it :thumbup:
    This afthernoon I took my Kemper back to the shop and compared it with another one.
    It seems to be O.K and that took my doubts away.
    I love this amp but I have to give it some more time to adjust every thing, to my taste .
    There where indeed a lot rigs that sound to bright too my personal taste but with some tweeking and choosing other cab sims they change a lot.
    There is a very big tonal difference in one or another cab.
    My Bogner 2 x12 OS cab has a big bas/low mid dark sound and only when this cab is lined out with a microphone the highs come out.
    So the difference with the real cab and the (Mic ) Cab sims are very big.

    Greatings Dorrus

    Quote from mDan

    I made the same experience with the same cab, it is a little dark. I much prefer my Tonehunters cab with 2 Creambacks though. But that's off topic :D
    My solution: Monitor EQ -> Bass -0.3 Mids +0.4 Treble +1.0 Presence +0.9 - tweak rig to your liking - FOH sounds great with that setting too.
    Another good advice: look the cab for FOH, then all the sounds should translate quite nice to FOH.

    Plus: It shouldn't be a problem for a good sound engineer to EQ your DI signal so that it sounds good - it's his job, not yours :)


    Thanks Dan
    But what stands "FOH" for please ? :huh:

    Quote from Dorrus

    Quoted from "mDan"



    I made the same experience with the same cab, it is a little dark. I much prefer my Tonehunters cab with 2 Creambacks though. But that's off topic :D
    My solution: Monitor EQ -> Bass -0.3 Mids +0.4 Treble +1.0 Presence +0.9 - tweak rig to your liking - FOH sounds great with that setting too.
    Another good advice: look the cab for FOH, then all the sounds should translate quite nice to FOH.

    Quote from Dorrus

    Plus: It shouldn't be a problem for a good sound engineer to EQ your DI signal so that it sounds good - it's his job, not yours :)

    Quote from Dorrus

    Thanks Dan
    But what stands "FOH" for please ? :huh:


    Front Of House: the sound that comes out from the main mixing board

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff

    I Compared my Real Bogner 2x12 OS Cab sound connected with the "speaker output " on my Kemper power rack
    versus the same 2x12 OS Cab sound but this time Simulated (indeed from the Kemper Rig Exchange site) with the xlr main outputs of the KPA
    So a real one Cabinet with the same type/brand simulated (profiled )cabinet

    Sorry to ask again...you are comparing the same profile played with cab off through a real cab (I assume in the same room with you) with the same profile played with cab sim on....through what? Monitors, PA boxes, ....?
    As said the cab simulations are all mic'd cabs, if you want to compare you need to mic your real cab in another room, run the signal through the same board and boxes and switch from the real cab to the simulated one.

    "Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music" Serghei Rachmaninoff

    This is a common mistake, you are not comparing like objects.

    1. The Kemper profile is an end to end profile which includes the coloration imparted by the microphone and microphone placement.

    2. A guitar amp has pretty bad off axis response compared to a PA cabinet. Think about where your ear is in relation to your guitar cabinet, and where a mic is in realation to your cabinet. Couple that with a much larger dispersion of high end from your typical PA cabinet and you will typically hear a much brighter tone from the PA. This is even a reality when micing up a real amp and monitoring the fold back.

    3. Separation of amp and cab in the Kemper is a mathematical estimate (CK's position is this always the case with any modeling system). You might get close with a profile of your actual amp, but I wouldn't expect it to be close with a profile someone else created in comparison to your amp, too many variables. Which brings me too...

    4. The most valid comparison you can do with the KPA compare a profile of your amp played back through a PA speaker or monitor vs your actual amp miced up and isolated through the same PA or monitor.